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Shallow Water Grave is a metalcore band from the general New England area (they're one of those acts that has guys from New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and everywhere excluding Timbuktu in the band), and they've been making waves since about 2003 with an off the wall demo which featured one time Shai Hulud vocalist Geert Van Der Veldt doing some guest screams. Eric Dellon, the group's figure head, as it were, sits down and tells me everything I could possibly want to know about him, aside from whether he's a boxers or briefs kinda guy. Check it out...
Q: When you wrote and recorded your original 2 track demo in 2003 (at
least I think it was 2003) you and your then-bassist Greg Thomas wrote
and recorded pretty much the entire thing yourselves. When you made
your newer material for the Suspension of Disbelief EP, did you write
and record the music yourself, or was the entire band involved?
A: Well, when we recorded the demo I had written all the music. For
those demos I recorded drums, as well as guitar and vocals. In fact,
the only reason I ended up singing, at all and in any capacity, was
because our original singer, CJ Bryant, ended up writing an email and
quitting the day before we went in. Thus, I was forced to write lyrics
the day before, right around the time that the Iraq war started. I only
remember this because Persist and Persevere, at parts, deals with a
friend of ours, Ron Manzano, lyrically. He was in Iraq at the time (I
think, or going to Iraq).
Anyway, when we went in to record for Suspension of Disbelief, not
much had changed. I wrote all the music and lyrics, but this time I did
everything on the recording. I don't think too many people know that.
Our current guitarist, Marco Corsino, was new to the band at that time
and wasn't really in recording shape as far as knowledge of the songs.
Greg and our other guitarist, Craig Magariello, were both in NY and it
was difficult to get them up to record. Plus, I was more in tune with
the way I wanted the songs to be played since I wrote the music. It
definitely makes me sound like an ego and megalomaniac, but it wasn't
that vibe at all. It was more a 'whoever plays it the best' type thing.
Bass is a different story; I'd prefer not to go into that.
Q: On the original versions of 'Persist and Persevere' and 'The
Darker Side of the Truth', former Shai Hulud vocalist Geert Van Der
Veldt appears on guest vocals. Ho did you get hooked up with Shai
Hulud, and do you think having such a big name associated with Shallow
Water Grave when you were starting out helped you with promotion?
A: I met Geert when i tried out for Shai Hulud on drums waaaay back
when. It obviously didn't work out but we stayed in touch quite a bit.
They asked me to do vocals on Zombie Apocalypse and we'd hang out, etc.
When I was doing the demo I figured, why not ask my friend Geert to do
some guest stuff? It wasn't a "this is going to gain us notoriety"
thing. I like his voice and thought it'd be fun and sound good.
However, in response to your other question, yes I think it definitely
helped out a ton. Because of him and Hulud, we had an immediate
substantial amount of listeners. Though we're quite different, I think
a lot of people who wouldn't normally have given us a chance did. It
also made "Hardcore news" headlines, whatever that's worth, and got us
a lot of listens on HxCmp3.com which ultimately helped us get signed.
Q: On the actual recording, you're doing all of the vocals, but Greg
from The Risk Taken is the band's official vocalist. Why is that?
A: Hahahaha. Well, Greg's not actually our vocalist, but he is. Man
I want that guy in the band so bad it's not even funny. He's a fucking
blast and one of my best friends/favorite people. He's great to be on
tour with, I love that guy. Anyway, now that the slobber fest is over,
the answer is, it's a matter of convenience. Yeah, I did vocals on the
CD, but it's really hard to find a drummer that's solid, hits hard,
grooves, and is a metronome. I play drums, thus, I'm our utility
infielder. Whatever we need, I'll do. The ultimate goal is to get me on
vocals, but until we find a drummer, that ain't happening. PS--Singers
are also impossible to find.
As a side note, the reason why Greg isn't in SWG is because he's got
The Risk Taken. He's been working on their new album, Colossus, which
is 90% finished and should be done within a month's time. I wouldn't
ever dream of taking a guy that talented on guitar away from a band as
good as The Risk Taken. Plus, I hate saying this because it makes me
sound like such a fan, but Greg's a musical genius. The way that kid
thinks about guitar, melody, riffs, and all that is really interesting.
Listening to him create and talk about music is great and motivating.
What can I say? I guess I'm a fan.
Q: With your involvment with Zombie Apocalypse and Greg's involvment
with The Risk Taken, is getting Shallow Water Grave out to tour and
premote your EP a little bit more difficult would you say?
A: Shit, man, just getting a band together is difficult enough.
Getting a band to stay together is sheer torture as is. Zombie
Apocalypse will never do anything. We may have played like 10 shows
total in the 2 or 3 years I've been in it. So, that does nothing. But,
Greg and The Risk Taken will be touring this summer. We're doing one
tour with them and I think he'll do double duty on that, but other than
that, we're fucked. We need to find someone to sing. So yeah, it's
hard. All I want to do is tour, but there's bills to worry about (both
life and music related) and getting a band of solid guys is holding all
of us back. For some, it's school and the threat of the real world/jobs
creeping up. We're at a really interesting place, I'm curious to know
what's going to happen. I've got a bunch of new material that I really
want to get out there, but I need to focus more on that and less on
what I've been dealing with, member changes, trying to find someone to
tour with us, etc. It's proving to be very difficult and taxing. I
don't want to be Zao, I just want 4 more dudes who want to do this for
real and have fun. Is that too much to ask?
Q: You guys are sort of based out of New England. Since so many huge
metalcore and hardcore bands are from that area, do you think it's
easier or harder to get recognized and build up a fan base?
A: You know, I never really thought about that. I think good music
stands out wherever you are. With that, you get what you put into it.
You can't just write a good album, not promote, tour, or do anything to
make noise and expect things to happen for you; you need to make them
happen to you. Now, do I think we're good music, or standout? No, I'm
pretty hard on Shallow Water Grave, but that's surely due to my lack of
self-confidence. But I definitely see us compared to the big 3 a lot:
Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, and Unearth (also All That Remains). I
guess that says something for us. Yet, at the same time, I don't think
we sound anything like any of those bands and I haven't listened to or
followed any of them in quite some time. I just think if we're under
the hub of a similar genre and from the same general location, it's an
easy correlation to draw. I think our new stuff will set us apart
though. It's more heavy and thrashy, but I'm sure we'll sound like
someone else then too so who gives a shit. There will always be
comparisons.
Q: A lot of the material on the Suspension of Disbelief EP has been
recorded for quite some time now. Do you plan on writing or recording
any new material any time soon, and if so, will it be a group effort or
will you do the majority of it yourself?
A: I'm pretty slow when it comes to writing. I don't play guitar as
often as I should. And even then, it's a slow process...clearly not
because I'm working on some sort of masterpiece, but because I'm
shitty. Like I said, the new material I have is a lot better. I think
it's smarter, I think it's harder (on the hands), I think it sounds
better, I think it's heavier...I just like it better. Aas far as who
will be playing it, i have no clue. If we're going in to record, I want
everyone to be able to handle their own stuff, but if one of us can
play it better than the other, then that person should do it. A lot of
bands do that, but you never hear about it.
Q: You guys actually recorded the Suspension of Disbelief EP at
Zing! Studios, Adam Dutkiewicz' studio. That's a pretty prestigious
location. What was that like, and what was the recording process for
the record like overall?
A: From what I understand, it isn't Adam D's studio; I think he just
works there. I believe it belongs to Jim Fogarty and someone else, not
so involved with the business itself. Regardless, it was fucking great.
I mean, the studio itself is fantastic, but I'm talking about the times
that I had with the guy that recorded it, Eric Arena. To be curt, the
entire sessions were about eating and the Jerky Boys. I'm actually
amazed that we got any work done at all in between Roy Rogers and
Zanto's Pizza. It was funny though, I'd usually come in at strange
hours. I was working a full time job while doing all of this. So I'd
get out around 5 or 6, go home for a few hours and then do a few hours
at the studio. I'd go in from like 10-2 or until either of us couldn't
do it anymore. There were times where I'd be there pretty much until I
had to get up for work in the morning. It was brutal, but so much fun.
I kept thinking about how Ross Robinson would sneak Fear Factory into
the studio he worked at so he could record their demo. Not that we're
at all near Fear Factory, but it made me laugh and I hope that someday
I could look back and relish that whole session. It fucking took long
enough, right? I think it took like 7 months. But the best part was
that Eric and I got to be friends. There are so many great stories that
we still talk about.
Q: You re-recorded the two tracks from your demo, as well as the
song 'In the Aftermath', for the EP, but you included the two demo
versions as well. Was there a specific reason for that?
A: I didn't want to feel like the money I spent on those was spent
in vain? I don't know, I thought it was a neat little thing to show the
progression. The songs aren't all too different, but there are subtle
things. Mainly how shitty my voice was on those demos. We never
released those songs, save for the internet, so why not?
Q: You guys are currently on an indie branch of Century Media called
InnerStrength Records, correct? Do you have any plans to move to a
bigger label, are you shopping around for bigger distribution, or
what's going on with that?
A: We have distribution through Century Media, yes, but we're on
InnerStrength Records. Jason Curnow, who runs the label, is probably
the most patient guy ever. I think at some point in the 8 years before
the record came out, he realized we were a waste of time, but put it
out anyway because he felt bad for us. In all seriousness, he believes
in us, but hates us at the same time. We give him so many problems. He
just wants us to get a solid lineup and tour because he believes that
we'll break though. It's great to have that kind of support, but it
sucks to consistently let him down.
We're hoping to get signed to a bigger label, despite all our baggage
and problems. I hate to say it, but it seems like that's what it's
going to take to make everyone REALLY do this. I've been working on
press kits with my roommate, who does that sort of thing for bands, and
we're sending it out to a bunch. We'd love to be signed to Eulogy,
Ferret, Metal Blade, or any label like it. It's just a matter of them
spotting the potential in us that some others, like Jason, see. I
really hope we can make some headway on that, because I want to make
Shallow Water Grave my life and job and put in 60 hours a week and more
to make it work. I love this band, I love being in it even though this
whole interview is one big complaint...it's what I do, otherwise, I'd
just give up. However, we're still here, trying to move forward.
Q: Heavier and heavier music is getting more and more popular. Even
bands like Cannibal Corpse are finally starting to become "mainstream",
I mean, as mainstream as a death metal band can get. Would you say it's
a good time to be a band like Shallow Water Grave?
A: Good for Cannibal Corpse, man. I've been listening to them since
I bought "The Bleeding" back in 96 or so. I remember making my mom go
out and buy me "Tomb of the Mutilated", and her calling me to say, "it
says Parental Advisory, are you sure I should get this for you?"
Hahahahaha, if she only knew. I think she does now, but whatever. They
deserve it, they're fucking awesome and I love everything they've done
since "The Bleeding", though "Gore Obsessed" is less than stellar.
PS--"Kill" fucking owns.
Now that I've named most of their records...is it a good time to be
a band like us? I don't know. I suppose it's easier because you have
way more tools available, but ultimately there's still a hierarchy and
there's a million and a half bands that sound like us, are better than
us, and work a lot harder than us. I should say, yes, but this shit
comes in waves and I'm sure metal's mainstream end is coming soon
enough.
Q: with things like myspace.com and hxcmp3.com (which is actually
how I discovered your two song demo several years ago) would you say
it's really easy for a band to get popular practically overnight?
A: Ooooooh yeah. For example, check out all the so-called
"grindcore" bands that are huge right now. I'll spare you the names,
but you know who they are. it seems like every day there's some new,
douche-cut fuck-face bunch of kids with tremolopicking, C# tuning,
breakdowns, and inhales that are the next big fucking thing. It's
goddamn ridiculous.
Q: Wow. Harsh. Going along with that last question, do you think it
hurts the integrity of the underground music scene that a band can get
together on Monday, record a demo on Wednesday and put those songs up
on Myspace as an established band on Friday?
A: I don't know if it hurts the integrity, but thankfully those
bands either fade away, or break up just as fast as their 15 minutes of
scene fame are up. I can't wait for ours, I'm going to make that shit
count and hopefully drink myself dead before they're up. (laughs) I
think it sucks that every fucking idiot with a friend who has a Mac and
a video camera can make a video. I think it sucks that they spend more
time combing their hair and teasing their pubes than writing their
music. I think it discredits the rest of us that are trying to do
something slightly different, but it won't change for awhile. Me? I'd
rather listen to and am more impressed by bands like Napalm Death who
have been doing REAL grindcore for over 20 years. Fuck all else.
Q: You did a short stint as the vocalist for Shai Hulud, what was that experience like, and what happened there?
A: Oh Reese, I hate you. It made me learn that I love touring and
that singing every night is really difficult. I admire the shit out of
James Hetfield and Phil Anselmo way more than I did before. You never
think about it, you just care that they kick ass when they come to your
town. A lot of suffering goes into that.
What was the experience like? Well, Europe was amazing. I made some
great friends with some great people and plan on visiting again right
before the summer. I made great friends with Remembering Never. I got
along with those guys really well. I had some good times with Parkway
Drive too. On the US tours, I had so much fun with all the bands. One
Dead Three Wounded was definitely my favorite and their tour manager
Arbin from Folly. Getting drunk with Since the Flood in Florida,
hanging out with 100 Demons and listening to Bruce talk about awesome
stories, watching Twelve Tribes every night, watching porn in Phoenix
Mourning's van, meeting Paint It Black and The Chariot in Germany...it
was all way better than I'd have ever thought. I had so much fun with
all of those other bands. However, Hulud is definitely dysfunctional.
There's obviously a reason why they've had as many members as they
have. There's a reason people joke about that. We did 3 tours and
things just kept on getting worse and worse. There was definitely a
straight division within the band and its members. I'm sure I
contributed with fucking up a lot vocally on tour. I lost my voice more
often than not in those 3 months. I made it 3 weeks in Europe, got
pharyn and laryngitis, coughed up a lot of blood, and had to sing for
one more week like that, had 7 days off and then back on the road. To
be fair, I didn't really take care of myself. But like I said, I'm sure
that caused a decent amount of tension. But, by the end of it, the fill
in was going home, I (a fill in as well) was totally disinterested, and
the other, "member" was kicked out/wanted to quit. We've all not talked
and not looked back. In addition, I was going to try out to be the
drummer, which was an idea before those tours, but after a lot of the
shit on the road, I had a discussion with one of the members in Italy
about how I didn't want to do it because I didn't have fun with them
and couldn't trust them. It's a shame when you have to look over your
shoulder and listen to whispers because you can't trust the guys you're
with. That's what made touring with SWG so fun. It was like hanging out
at Greg Thomas's house, but in a different place every night. Total
fun. Anyway, I learned a lot of what to do and what not to do. I think
constructive criticism is important. If someone fucks up, there's a
right way and a wrong way to mention that. Likewise, they already
probably know they fucked up and telling them in a less than nice way,
doesn't really help. I've learned to tell people they've done a good
job when they put their heart into it every night. Everything I do on
tour with Shallow Water Grave is a direct reaction to my time with Shai
Hulud. Unfortunately, it's almost all of the negative things that
happened that I want to change with my band, than positive things.
What happened there? Hmmm...a couple of things. As I mentioned, I
was having problems keeping my voice. One day, after a terrible
practice, I was on my way home from Poughkeepsie and I got a phone call
from a friend. He asked if I was still singing for Shai Hulud. When I
said yes, he said, is there a chance that might not happen? I said,
sure, I've been having problems keeping my voice but we haven't
discussed anything. He let me know that a friend of his, Ian (of It
Prevails), from Oregon had said he'd be singing for Hulud now. I was
taken aback and decided I should call Matt Fox to find out, while
keeping my source anonymous (to this day) and also giving him a chance
to out himself for doing this behind my back. I think this was in June
or so. So I called Matt and said let's talk, and he said, okay about
what, and I said, about me not being in the band anymore. I basically
explained that we've been running around the issue of me losing my
voice in hopes that it would improve and it hasn't. At this point, they
weren't willing to send me to Melissa Cross any more on their own dime
(which they'd done twice) for me not to work on it and try to help
myself, and I couldn't afford it. So we talked for a bit and Matt told
me about Ian, and let me know that they still wanted me to be in the
band in some capacity and that they thought I was the "3rd guy" blah
blah blah. He made it very nice and left it up to me, saying, so what
does this mean, does this mean you aren't doing Europe and all that and
we should get Ian ready. Eventually we settled on yes. We agreed I'd
play one last show with them, in Poughkeepsie, and split the set with
Ian. Zombie Apocalypse also played this show. Anyway, all that went
great; Ian did okay at that show, but was a little shaky. And so I
continued life as a working stiff at a law firm. Exciting, right? Well,
one day I got a call from Matt Fox saying, if we asked you to tour on
vocals, would you do it? I asked why and he told me that Ian hadn't
learned the lyrics and was having trouble with placements and phrasing.
I told them I didn't know because I didn't think I could trust them. So
he asked again and I said something to the extent of, sure if you pay
for my passport to get reinstated and expedited. This was with about 2
two weeks left to go before they left for Europe. What followed was a
barrage of emails, phone calls, and worry/panic all behind Ian's back
to see if I could get my passport in time to go on tour. They kept Ian
in the dark for the majority of it and when it became clear I'd have my
passport in time (got it the day we left) they let him go home. So
there was that.
Separately, Greg Thomas, who has a studio (Silver Bullet Media), had
asked me if the Hulud guys ever told me about having Ian out to his
studio. I said no, and his response was, "Oh, Dellon". He let me know
that prior to all the above mess, they'd flown Ian out to re-record
over the vocals I had lain down for 'To Bear the Brunt of Many Blades',
the newest song on their myspace. They asked him not to tell me and
said he couldn't tell anyone because it'd get back to me. When he said
to them, you have to tell him soon, they said they were going to tell
me in a few weeks. I was never told. So to recap, flew out a new guy to
try out while I was in the band, had him record in secret at my good
friend's studio, asked my good friend to keep a secret from me that was
very important to me (since I passed up a lot of other things to be in
the band) and lied to him about telling me. Pretty awesome, right?
Anyway, that's what happened.
Q: Wow...well, uhm, what plans does Shallow Water Grave have for 2007?
A: Touring this summer, hopefully getting signed to a bigger label, and recording a new record, at full length.
Q: Where do you see yourself in the next five years?
A: It all depends. If this doesn't work out, I think I'm a little
too old to start from the ground up again. I'll probably move to NYC
and get a job or end up teaching History, Politics, or Social Studies,
if I can watch my mouth. Ultimately, if things continue successfully
for Grave, touring the world and having fun with friends. That's the
way more appealing of the two.
Q: Anything you'd like to add in closing?
A: Listen to Extol, Bloodbath, Cannibal Corpse, Diabolical Masquerade, Lagwagon, Paint It Black and Bad Astronaut?
Reese: I'd like to say a big thanks for Eric Dellon for being a dude
and doing this interview...check out Shallow Water Grave on myspace.com
at www.myspace.com/swg
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